There's a lot of text being typed up about Matisyahu and other Jewish Rock/Reggae/Whatever musicians and the appropriateness of their playing in Rock Clubs/Bars.
I'm not going to address the issue of teenagers, frum or non-frum, at these events. These kids don't belong in clubs that serve alcohol and are for 21 and over anyway. That's an issue for the parents and the club owners.
As a musician who has performed in rock clubs (both with Jewish and non-Jewish Bands), I'd like to give some insight as to why Piamenta, Blue Fringe, Soulfarm, etc. seek out such venues. It's not about kiruv, or making a point, or making a Kiddush Hashem, or making money (definitely not), or about trying to be a rebel.
It's about the music. That's it.
The kind of music that these bands play is best heard in this setting. What all these acts have in common is volume. This style of music is loud. You can't get the energy you need from a hip-hop jam or a guitar solo when you're playing at cocktail-lounge volume. I don't know how many gigs I've been at where we turned all the volume way down, the drummer was playing with brushes, and I practically whispered out the vocals, and there was still some old lady coming up to the band with her hands over her ears asking, no, demanding that I turn down. To the point where I just started playing acoustic guitars at those gigs to avoid the fuss. A different show altogether.
I played a show with The Moshe Skier Band at The Note (Chicago) last Lag Beomer, opening for Piamenta. The audience was all young and middle aged adults. Piamenta did a similar show the next day in a family-oriented environment. The crowd at The Note went wild for Yosi, demanding an encore. The crowd the next day hated him.
It's nice to be able to play someplace where you can crank up the volume, get some energy flowing, and play to a bunch of appreciative adults who love loud music and understand what we're doing.
And you know, maybe make a little Kiddush Hashem at the same time.
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15 comments:
We better see you at the Milwaukee show. Good venue?
Amen. Well said.
Your show at the Note KICKED %$# by the way
that old lady sure gets around, she used to haunt my gigs in another midwestern city. And you should meet her husband...why they insist on sitting at the table right in front of the speakers is a mystery to me. I was once tempted to ask them to just turn off their hearing aids....bad dilbert bad dilbert.
I would go one step further, Moshe. A few years ago, a friend of mine started a Jewish Club right here in Teaneck. He called it Rock Balaila. Among the performers who worked there were Avraham Rosenbloom, Leibel Ben Moshe, Yitzchak HaLevi Band, Inasense, Piamenta and your truly, with The Kleztraphobix. It was held about once a month in the Metivta for Traditional Judaism's building in Teaneck. MTJ is the Yeshiva started by David Halivni when he left JTS over women's ordination. It is totaly Shomer Shabbat,and it's musmachim are fairly indistinguishable from the more "modern" musmachim of YU.
After about a year, a few of the Rabbis in town told their people that they shouldn't patronize Rock Balaila, because the rental fee was paid to a non orthodox institution. one Rabbi was also uncomfortable with the idea of a nightclub for Jews in town. So this club, which served no alchohol, and was providing a Jewish community with Jewish music by musicians who were serious about making music for serious listening, was forced to close.
The bottom line is that as long as there are creative Jewish musicians, they (we) are going to want to play their (our) music, be it jazz, Rock, Classical, Avante Garde Klezmer, or anything else. And it's about the music. If the music has a spiritual component, ma tov u-ma naim. But if attempte at creating venues are going to be stymied by unimaginative "community leaders," They can't very well complain when other venues are used.
PT
Two points (and I'm speaking only about the New York club scene).
1. The fact is that the overwhelming majority of the audience at these gigs is teens. The gigs are specifically marketed to these kids (read some of Blue Fringe's emails which clearly target the teeny bopper crowd). The question is (and I'm not proposing an answer here), to what extent do these musicians have a responsibility not to attract this audience to venues like this?
2. How do you know it's not about the money?
Well said, Jordan.
When I lived in NY, Jerusalem 2 had a little nightclub on the second floor. Kabbalah played there a few times. It was one of the most fun experiences I had with that band. A room full of Jewish College students singing "Yismechu Hashamayim." It was very inspiring.
We need places like that.
People complain about Matisyahu playing at clubs, but they also complain about him at Hasc. Where is he supposed to play? The clubs are more appropriate for someone like him. He's not a good "bubbe" player.
Like a good Jew, Mo, I'm going to answer your second question first:
It's not about money because these clubs pay little to nothing for the band. Further, if you're going to tour, the cost of touring, to your livelihood, family and pocketbook, usually outweighs any payments. Touring is considered promotional for selling CDs. Likewise with TV appearances. The only financial incentive I see is that the notoriety may bring people to check out your CDs.
Back to teens I guess (which I said I wouldn't address). It is inappropriate to bring teens into these places (without parents). When my daughter insisted she had to see her favorite band at a club, I went with her. My coat smelled like tobacco for weeks. The band was fabulous, BTW, and left me thinking "why can't I play in this type of venue" minus the smoke, alcohol etc.
We have been considering putting together an MSB show for fundraising purposes. We considered a local club, Shank Hall, which would be a perfect setting for us, has great acoustics, and I know the owner (and I've played there). We decided against it, because it would be inappropriate to have children (and teens are children) there.
However, I would not have a problem playing there for say, a singles event (there's no dance floor). Alas, the milwaukee singles scene is fairly orthodox-phobic and we are paradoxically too frum for them.
PT
Just to clarify my second question...
I was asking not in a chutzpadik or challenging way but because I simply didn't know the economics.
I think we more or less agree that the issue of teens at these clubs is a serious one. Unlike you, most parents don't have a clue what goes on at these clubs and are not as cautious or smart about it. In no way are they absolved of responsibility but the fact remains that the bands that play these venues, at least in NY, know exactly whom they are attracting.
Don't worry about offending me, Mo.
But I think you illustrate a good reason why we should support places like Jordan's Teaneck Club. Kids want to hear this kind of music. We should have a kosher outlet for it.
Like the squeegie men like to say, they could be doing a lot worse.
If you think that frummies don't listen to secular music, despite being banned by their families/communities/schools, you're wrong.
When my daughter was in Junior High, she was virtually ostracized by her friends because she listened to goyishe music (which I monitored).
Now, in HS, those same girls are all into rap. A Shonder! My daughter thinks it's the funniest thing. At least my daughter has good taste.
PT
I agree with you on the Jewish club front. That's why I have suggested to a couple of the musicians with whom I am close (Aron Razel and Chaim Dovid) to do gigs at the Jewish Music Cafe in Brooklyn (which Dm highlighted recently) even though the money stinks. They are attemtping to do something very positive and should be supported.
And, I'm very well aware of what the teenaged girls listen to (and watch on MTV). I have a seventh grader who is possibly the only one who doesn't (by choice).
It should also be pointed out that MO's shul has part of the solution by having an occasional Cafe nught featuring artists such as Chaim Dovid et al. Another minyan here in Teaneck has been doing something as well, somewhat modeled on Rock Balaila. It is called Rock B'davar. Davar is a minyan/institute run by a friend of mine, larry Krule, who started a minyan in his house whose purpose was to provide an intimiate davening with interesting scholars in residence. Among the guests they have had have been Adin Steinsaltz. The speakers tend towrds the scholarly end of the orthodox spectrum, and some have been ver good.
The music has refelceted a much wider variety than is usual in Jewish institutions such as Rock balaila or Aish kodesh. Larry has brougt in a number of the usual suspects, like the acoustic folk rock favored in many places. But he has also brought in classical musicians, and even now he and I have been discussing doing some kind of program of classical music and another of jazz related to Jewish composers. so solutions are possible.
The bottom line is stay away from gigs where there is a Rabbi present. If you're in a nightclub, that's one thing. But, if you're at their place (shul, school, whatever) you can be guaranteed that someone will say its treif. Especially if the music is good.
Music with a Haskama will ALWAYS suck. Play to the unafilliated and the goyim and the hip. If they pick up on it, the Jews will come (running).
I gave up on playing for shuls, schools etc. The music is treif, its too loud, and they roll up the tables and chairs when the food runs out - even in the middle of a set. Lets face it, music to most orthodox Jews is not important - a good shmorg - now you're talking.
Gee, Avi, why don't you tell us what you REALLY think.
BTW, I played "By a Thread" at my gig in Chicago on Dec 11.
I apologize for my last post. I didn't mean to be so cynical. The thread just hit a nerve.
Avi
No, Avi, you're right on.
I can tell that my Rebbe, who is btw a real Tzadik, doesn't like my music. I know what kind of music he likes (having produced two of his albums), and it ain't Jewish Rock.
But he's never said anything to me. He won't tell me to stop playing, he won't criticize me, and he won't walk out on a performance.
Yet I can see it in his eyes, even when I play Diaspora stuff. So when we play in the Shul, we don't play Jewish rock until all the rebbeyim are gone. Usually it's 2am and the band has already been playing for several hours. By then, there's a group of about 20 people, teens through middle aged adults, who have been waiting around for us to play the rock.
Then we wail, and everyone goes home happy.
It's not that he won't let us play, it's that I don't feel comfortable making him uncomfortable. You see the difference?
Again, that's a reason to take it out of the shul and find the venue where the people coming to your show know what to expect and like what you're doing.
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